Unlocking the Mysteries of Acts with Dr. Robert Cara

[00:00:00] This is the episode you've been waiting for. We're gonna talk about the gift of tongues

[00:00:06] Well, actually we're gonna just talk about the book of Acts

[00:00:08] But whenever we talk about acts everybody wants to know about tongues

[00:00:11] So we're gonna do just that but we're also gonna talk about all the weird stuff that happens in this book

[00:00:16] We got exorcisms. We got mass revivals

[00:00:19] We got miraculous jail breaks all the fun stuff that you would expect from an exciting

[00:00:25] Narrative that happens to be history the history of the working of the power of the Holy Spirit in and through

[00:00:31] The Church of Christ and we have on our show Dr. Robert Cara from RTS Orlando

[00:00:37] He is currently working on a commentary in the book of Acts

[00:00:41] So we're gonna get some insight not only just on the stuff

[00:00:43] He's working on regarding acts

[00:00:45] But he's gonna take us behind the scenes into all the stuff that goes into actually crafting a

[00:00:51] Commentary and we talk about a whole host of other issues Israel and the church church polity and the Jerusalem Council and

[00:00:59] All kinds of different denominations and how they view that particular passage as well as how the modern church can apply

[00:01:06] Some of the things that we see in the book of Acts enjoy the episode

[00:01:10] You're listening to that'll preach on today's show. We have got Dr. Robert Cara

[00:01:24] He's the Hugh and Sally Reeves Professor of New Testament at RTS Charlotte

[00:01:28] He's also the provost and chief academic officer for the RTS institution. Dr. Cara

[00:01:34] We're so glad to have you on the show today

[00:01:36] Thank You Brian, and I enjoyed our little discussion before we went on we had some great time

[00:01:41] You know, I mean obviously, you know, we talked about I mean

[00:01:43] I went to RTS Orlando and you were one of the lectures for the global program with your you know

[00:01:49] On the RTS mobile app, which is a great app for anyone out there download a lot of great material there

[00:01:54] But I was just you know

[00:01:56] We were just talking for you and how it's great to meet you

[00:01:58] Because I've only just heard you at double speed in my ears as I'm listening to the assigned lectures

[00:02:03] But so it's a real pleasure to have you on and and obviously you've got quite the output of books that you have written

[00:02:10] And you know, we wanted to talk today about something you're currently

[00:02:16] Working on that. I think you said it was gonna be a 50 year project or something like that

[00:02:20] It's gonna take a little bit of time

[00:02:22] But you're working on a commentary on the book of acts

[00:02:26] You want to talk a little bit about that and what that process has been like

[00:02:31] Yes, so this is

[00:02:34] With Crossway publishing they are starting a mega a

[00:02:40] Very detailed commentaries on every book of the Bible

[00:02:44] They were gracious enough to ask me to do acts

[00:02:49] So it'll be a quite an academic commentary and then one interesting thing about it

[00:02:56] It's got the word

[00:02:58] Reformed in somewhere in the title of the commentary series, but after we do all the traditional

[00:03:05] Commentary technical parts of it then they want a section on how does this relate to anything?

[00:03:13] Related to reform theology, so that's kind of an interesting angle to this series

[00:03:18] It'll be a traditional commentary plus every single more or less paragraph and acts you got to stop and

[00:03:25] Say something how this relates to something within

[00:03:29] Reform theology reform theology

[00:03:32] Understood broadly. There's a lot of angles to reform theology

[00:03:36] So that's sort of where I live

[00:03:39] in my Hebrews commentary

[00:03:42] Same was by a different publisher

[00:03:45] but they made me stop after every paragraph and

[00:03:50] Write a reflections section and many times not every single time

[00:03:54] It was about a kind of theological topic and how to reform theology handle this

[00:04:00] so this commentate this new commentary series I'm working on from a

[00:04:07] Crossway is right where I live

[00:04:09] So I'm looking forward to many years of working on this commentary

[00:04:15] Well, you know, I'm excited to see the final product when it comes out many many many years from now

[00:04:21] But what is take us a little behind the scenes. What's it like writing a commentary? What is that process like?

[00:04:27] Well, this is this will be my third commentary

[00:04:31] It's different for every person

[00:04:34] And commentary writers we ask this question among ourselves. Well, how do you do this? How do you do that?

[00:04:42] Well

[00:04:44] What I do is I

[00:04:47] Take the Greek text I

[00:04:50] Translate the Greek text and I'm interested in a lot of

[00:04:53] micro Greek grammar so I'm fiddle with that

[00:04:57] And I sort of lay out what I think the flow of the passages and I gotta write down a bunch of questions

[00:05:03] I'm not sure of and then what I do is

[00:05:08] Intriguingly as you mentioned I like creeds my next step is I look in

[00:05:14] Like about a hundred different creeds and I have

[00:05:19] Indices to help me it's not like I'm reading through 100 every time

[00:05:22] And I look where's any where any of the

[00:05:27] Any part of this paragraph foot noted in the creeds

[00:05:31] That's just in special interest of mine normal commentary writers don't do that

[00:05:35] then I do I

[00:05:38] probably look at about

[00:05:40] 30 commentaries

[00:05:43] and I have

[00:05:45] commentaries all through church history all different types of

[00:05:51] Roman Catholic reformed Lutheran I have all modern commentaries which you have all types of

[00:05:59] you know atheists writing commentaries to

[00:06:02] by believing

[00:06:04] Arminians by believing reformed

[00:06:07] So forth and so on so I look at those commentaries

[00:06:12] Which one double-checking what I think oh they have some good ideas. Maybe I need to change my mind

[00:06:18] They also give me a lot of rabbit trails

[00:06:21] and then also

[00:06:23] I'll look at

[00:06:24] first century

[00:06:27] background stuff

[00:06:29] What we call second temple Judaism

[00:06:33] And so these are Jewish writings and then also Greco-Roman writings that would relate

[00:06:40] possibly to my passage

[00:06:42] And I do a few other things

[00:06:45] And I get a mass all that information then I got to sit down and I'll

[00:06:51] You know write

[00:06:53] You can't say everything in a commentary, but I'll

[00:06:56] write that paragraph

[00:06:59] Summary of what I think that paragraph means and then all little interesting footnotes and some boring footnotes

[00:07:06] and

[00:07:07] It's it's quite a process another thing I do is before I write that paragraph I

[00:07:13] reread

[00:07:14] The entire book of the Bible that I'm on say it was Hebrews. I

[00:07:19] reread the entire book again with notes

[00:07:22] How does this entire book relate to my paragraph is there anything I missed?

[00:07:27] So I'm double-checking in multiple ways

[00:07:31] That so it's a it's an involved academic process, but I

[00:07:38] like it a lot

[00:07:41] And in the Lord's providence

[00:07:44] God has gifted me to do a lot of that micro work. So

[00:07:48] Do you find certain kinds of commentaries helpful for certain things?

[00:07:52] So like church fathers are helpful for this modern commentaries help with this even non

[00:07:57] Christian or not unorthodox

[00:08:00] scholars are helpful for this

[00:08:02] yes

[00:08:03] the a lot of times the

[00:08:06] the atheistic or non

[00:08:08] Christian or barely orthodox

[00:08:11] Commentaries a lot of times are good for running tracking down footnotes or sources in Greco in the Greco-Roman world

[00:08:18] Or second temple Judaism world

[00:08:21] Uh, they're especially good at that. Um, they're also a nice kind of

[00:08:28] When they even agree there's an orthodox statement you're like well even the non orthodox guy

[00:08:34] A lot of times the non orthodox people will say

[00:08:39] Uh, well, of course paul

[00:08:42] Believes that jesus physically rose from the dead

[00:08:46] And then they say well, I don't believe that personally, but they will agree paul does

[00:08:50] You know and that can be useful information to me

[00:08:53] Uh, the church fathers a lot of times want to make

[00:08:57] And I love this theological discussions houses relate to god

[00:09:02] um

[00:09:04] certain

[00:09:05] Problems in their culture

[00:09:07] uh, I mean they're

[00:09:09] They're interested in big picture issues a lot of times

[00:09:13] We're in the modern world

[00:09:17] Many times we're interested in micro issues and

[00:09:21] You know, especially certain commentary writers if you're on he bruise they don't want to get an inch out of he bruise

[00:09:27] um

[00:09:29] so

[00:09:30] But the church fathers

[00:09:34] Do that a lot

[00:09:35] I might say another split

[00:09:37] Among the commentaries is

[00:09:39] Those who actually believe god wrote that part of the bible if you believe god is the author

[00:09:46] and that's gonna

[00:09:48] Adjust how you see

[00:09:50] Sources how much how you view the old testament relative to your new testament book

[00:09:54] Versus other scholars

[00:09:57] Who don't see god as the author?

[00:10:00] So that's a split and i'm well aware of that split as i'm reading

[00:10:04] all these variety of

[00:10:07] Commentaries

[00:10:08] one of the things that you talk about

[00:10:10] is uh narrative criticism

[00:10:14] And or rather narrative analysis

[00:10:17] And uh, that's something that you've written about and that you see my focus on so what is that?

[00:10:23] How would you explain that?

[00:10:25] So it's a newer word in scholarship. It's always sort of been there

[00:10:30] uh, so narrative analysis or some will call it narrative criticism

[00:10:36] is

[00:10:38] Okay, i'm gonna give you the the

[00:10:40] Liberal or non-orthodox view of it first and then how can an evangelical or bible-eving person look at?

[00:10:48] uh

[00:10:49] So if you're in a

[00:10:51] A book of the bible

[00:10:53] That is not a letter, but it's a story

[00:10:57] like acts

[00:10:58] uh, the liberal view narrative criticism is assume for sake of argument

[00:11:04] It's like a fiction story

[00:11:07] and

[00:11:08] if it said

[00:11:10] Paul did this miracle you just assume because it's a fiction story Paul did the miracle

[00:11:16] You're not asking any historical questions. You just look at it as

[00:11:21] A fiction story and then you ask questions about plot

[00:11:25] character

[00:11:26] Oh

[00:11:27] There's a parallel between peter and paul. Oh, that was an intentional parallel and so you look at the story level

[00:11:35] um to gain insight and then you may also distinguish between

[00:11:41] uh, sort of the how the what's happening to the characters in the story

[00:11:46] And then you'll also look at what methodology

[00:11:50] Does the writer tell the story? How many times does he insert a

[00:11:56] He stops the story and then explains well

[00:12:00] The disciples were confused because Jesus did not raise from the dead yet

[00:12:03] And he inserts his own little statements into the story. So you'd look at

[00:12:07] um, uh, the story itself and how

[00:12:11] Um, the author told the story

[00:12:14] How many times does he go back and forth in time and things like that?

[00:12:18] There may be analogies to your film school, uh, brian

[00:12:22] And how you do films and things like that now that analysis by a

[00:12:33] non-christian looking at it as a fiction story

[00:12:37] Has some help for an evangelical because they just think I'm taking

[00:12:45] The story is true

[00:12:47] As a fiction story true on the surface

[00:12:50] Matches an evangelical's view that we think it actually historically happened

[00:12:55] So therefore

[00:12:57] There is a positive overlap there as opposed to some other critical scholars

[00:13:02] They have a story where Jesus did a miracle or paul did a miracle

[00:13:07] And they'll say well, of course the miracle didn't happen

[00:13:11] So what in the world did he put this in for how did it get in there? Why who lied about

[00:13:17] The miracle, you know, and it's that kind of analysis

[00:13:20] Well that analysis is not going to be useful to an evangelical

[00:13:24] But an analysis by narrative critics

[00:13:28] Uh can can be useful

[00:13:31] Now, uh, you know, so any paragraph you're in paul or excuse me in ax

[00:13:36] It's useful to see where are some parallels elsewhere in ax and then also in uh luke

[00:13:42] And the narrative critics

[00:13:45] That's that's what they're doing every paragraph. What's the plot of this?

[00:13:49] What's the character and how does this relate to the plot line?

[00:13:53] Of the whole story

[00:13:55] That's useful

[00:13:57] to us

[00:13:59] now

[00:14:00] Bible believing people have more or less been doing this for 2000 years with the new testament

[00:14:08] You know, there's a parallel between

[00:14:11] Axe and you know say first and second sand, well any old testament story

[00:14:16] It's written by god. It's telling true historical details, but it's also making theological points

[00:14:23] Uh by it

[00:14:25] so an evangelical

[00:14:27] has always thought of the bible as

[00:14:31] Both having a plot and in god's providence there can be parallels

[00:14:36] But they're all based off true events

[00:14:38] I think the uh parallel to filmmaking is actually pretty

[00:14:42] Pretty strong. I mean, I've thought about that where

[00:14:45] you know

[00:14:46] If you think about cutting together a documentary or editing

[00:14:50] You actually are making jumps in time sometimes you even rearrange material and it's not to obscure the truth

[00:14:55] It's actually to make it more presentable and understandable

[00:14:58] You're actually trying to make it the connections and the realism of it more

[00:15:04] uh

[00:15:05] More accessible to an audience and so, you know, just thinking about the gospels the narrative of the gospels

[00:15:10] Luke acts that whole thing that the fact that there's parallels and there's

[00:15:15] similar motifs and elements that repeat is not like

[00:15:20] I think that's a modern thing to think. Oh, there's all these things that's they're forcing coincidence or something rather than actually trying to

[00:15:27] to demonstrate something that is

[00:15:29] true through the means of

[00:15:31] Showing historical events and all these types of things and so, you know, I think sometimes when you say story

[00:15:36] It's like you mean none of it happens like no it it all happened and it's presented in a particular way

[00:15:42] To teach you something about who god is

[00:15:44] Yeah, yeah well said. I mean

[00:15:47] super sake of argument

[00:15:49] When matthew's writing his commentary from his human perspective

[00:15:55] He might have had

[00:15:57] You know

[00:15:58] 500

[00:15:59] Paragraphs of information he could have written but he had to get it down to you know 100 paragraphs

[00:16:06] that he put in

[00:16:09] and

[00:16:10] You know, the holy spirit guided him that

[00:16:15] What he got in is what ultimately god

[00:16:18] Wanted to put in with the appropriate parallels and the appropriate

[00:16:23] Themes

[00:16:25] Emphasized at the correct level they were supposed to be emphasized

[00:16:29] And all of that

[00:16:31] Well acts is such a sprawling narrative. I mean, I just think through it and it's just so

[00:16:37] massive so many things happen

[00:16:39] And there's so many characters that are at the forefront and then they go they were seen in the background other characters come

[00:16:45] In the forefront. There's all kinds of historical things

[00:16:47] How would you distill?

[00:16:49] What is the message of axe if if you could just pull it out and just say if you get anything from axe

[00:16:55] It's this what would you say?

[00:16:58] Well, there's probably about three or four correct answers to that. Okay

[00:17:03] The usual starting point is

[00:17:07] You know the the opening paragraph of luke and the opening paragraph of axe is

[00:17:12] Written to theophilus before he gets into the story

[00:17:15] story in a historical story

[00:17:18] And

[00:17:20] He says I am presenting the historical what happened historically

[00:17:26] To confirm

[00:17:28] Or increase your faith

[00:17:30] So that you know, so that's sort of what it says on the surface

[00:17:34] in axe you get the

[00:17:36] Little later in chapter one verse eight and it gives you sort of an outline of where he's going his as far as geography

[00:17:44] He's going to show the things

[00:17:47] Jesus is going to show how he's going to send the holy spirit to change things

[00:17:51] In jerusalem and in wider judia

[00:17:55] Samaria and then quote the ends of the earth

[00:17:59] Which would be everywhere of which the

[00:18:02] The end of the book he gets to roam, which I would say is one of many of the ends of the earth

[00:18:08] so

[00:18:10] Historically at least axe is about

[00:18:14] How christ now ascended

[00:18:17] Through the power of the holy spirit

[00:18:19] Is building his church

[00:18:22] Uh in a world, you know

[00:18:25] throughout the known world as we would say

[00:18:28] there now

[00:18:31] Then the next question is

[00:18:34] Well, how does he do it?

[00:18:37] Well through the power of the holy spirit, but they primary not the only but the primary means

[00:18:42] In the book of axe

[00:18:44] Is through the preaching of the various authorized

[00:18:48] representatives

[00:18:50] So if you ask the question, how does the church grow?

[00:18:54] Internally through the holy spirit the external means

[00:18:58] Was the preaching uh of the gospel in a variety of different situations

[00:19:05] So that might be there another sub

[00:19:08] Plot can be there's going to be difficulties while this occurs, but despite the difficulties

[00:19:15] The gospel will keep going on

[00:19:17] Um

[00:19:19] And the church of jesus christ will expand

[00:19:24] That might be my answer brian

[00:19:27] Well, I think the answer people really want to hear is

[00:19:30] tongues that's the message of book of axe and now I do think that tongues

[00:19:35] You know whenever you do a study in axe that's always kind of

[00:19:38] A subject that people are curious about yeah, and uh, I

[00:19:43] Well, how do we make sense of the primacy of tongues appearing in the book of axe?

[00:19:48] How do we make sense of that? Okay good a good question and hard to believe I've been asked that a million times

[00:19:58] The the first okay tongues occurs

[00:20:02] In chapter two at pentecost

[00:20:05] It's not 100 explicit in chapter eight

[00:20:09] But I believe it's there and my pentecostal friends will agree with me

[00:20:12] So it's in chapter eight with the samaritans converting to the gospel and if you recall samaritans

[00:20:19] quote half jewish

[00:20:21] half non-jewish

[00:20:23] Um

[00:20:24] Then the next place that occurs is in chapter 10 and that's with the gentile

[00:20:30] Cornelius and the final place that occurs is chapter 19

[00:20:35] With uh, john the baptist disciples paul interacting with them

[00:20:38] So in one sense it hardly occurs when it really gets down to it. We got pentecost chapter two

[00:20:45] chapter eight samaria

[00:20:47] chapter 10

[00:20:49] The gentile Cornelius chapter 19

[00:20:53] Uh, the john the bapt the former john the baptist disciples that hadn't heard about christ all the angles of christ yet

[00:20:59] uh, and so

[00:21:02] You know the first point is

[00:21:04] Well pentecost

[00:21:05] Is this great redemptive historical change over from the old testament to the new testament

[00:21:12] This is like the death and resurrection of christ. This is this major event

[00:21:17] This is not designed to be repeatable. It's

[00:21:21] The holy spirit coming holy spirit was always in the old testament

[00:21:24] But now he's coming out in more measure into the new testament age. So this is not a repeatable thing

[00:21:32] um, I think uh

[00:21:33] 70 a hundred years ago

[00:21:36] Many people would read pentecost and go. Oh that I can pentecost is happening all the time and is always happening

[00:21:44] But there was a west minster professor named richard gaffin

[00:21:49] Well, he's still still alive

[00:21:51] And uh, he wrote a famous book in the late 70s

[00:21:56] about

[00:21:59] Pentecost and ax and he made the point it is not repeatable pentecost is not repeatable. It's one of the major

[00:22:07] Redemptive historical events like the coming of christ at the resurrection of christ

[00:22:12] ascension of christ and then the coming of the holy spirit

[00:22:16] And I think

[00:22:17] That book made such an impact on many pentecostals

[00:22:21] That they stopped at least at the professor level making the mistake of saying pentecost itself is repeatable

[00:22:28] Okay, so that's pentecost now. What about chapter eight the samaritans chapter 10 the gentile chapter 19

[00:22:36] uh the

[00:22:38] john the baptist disciples

[00:22:41] In the book of ax it seems clear because

[00:22:45] every time it occurs

[00:22:47] Then the character in the story will say and see god agrees that

[00:22:53] The samaritans can be christians that gentiles can be christians that john the baptists or as I say

[00:22:58] Using my little sports analogy

[00:23:00] They're all on the team. They're all on the christian team

[00:23:04] So it's clear in ax

[00:23:08] first

[00:23:10] In first chrithians a little less clear, but it's clear in ax

[00:23:15] That tongues only occurs

[00:23:18] When a new group

[00:23:20] joins

[00:23:22] part of the new testament church team

[00:23:24] Uh, we need the samaritans. They're half jewish half not jewish. We need the gentiles

[00:23:31] Uh and the john the baptist people

[00:23:34] Um, it's also clear in ax that tongues are real languages

[00:23:39] Um, it's super clear in ax. It's less clear in first chrithians

[00:23:43] Although I think it's it's real languages in first chrithians, but it's not as clear as day as it is in ax

[00:23:49] So in ax why are tongues there?

[00:23:53] They're an outward manifestation

[00:23:55] To show one the new redemptive historical change over to the new testament and

[00:24:01] Various other groups are part of the the church team

[00:24:08] There's my answer prime. No, that was well said one of the things I've always been curious about is

[00:24:13] I mean many charismatic are going to point to first chrithians

[00:24:18] 12 through 14 and talking about how it is a different kind of tongues

[00:24:22] They seem to be expecting it and I think I don't know if even sensations would agree that for that time period

[00:24:27] It might have been normative beyond just people groups coming in whether it's a language or not. Yeah

[00:24:33] Yeah, see if the yeah the question's about ax the answer is really simple

[00:24:36] Yeah, it's new groups coming in

[00:24:39] And that's pretty much in the scholarly world now pretty standard view

[00:24:43] Because it's hard to deny when you read through it

[00:24:46] First Corinthians as you point out a little trickier there had to be some

[00:24:51] normativeness going on

[00:24:54] In addition to you're part of the team

[00:24:58] And it may have been

[00:25:00] Yeah, we just don't have enough details to know all the angles there

[00:25:05] but we have other and other aspects like Ephesians 220 that

[00:25:14] Uh

[00:25:17] Foundation is the apostles and new testament prophets

[00:25:21] They're the foundations and tongues is a word

[00:25:26] gift

[00:25:27] so therefore when the

[00:25:31] official word gifting

[00:25:35] In a kind of inerrant. This is what god says ends it would make sense

[00:25:41] That tongues would end to be a cessationist

[00:25:45] Right there and then you you can add in the argument

[00:25:50] I don't put as much stock in this

[00:25:52] But as you look at the new testament letters and you line them up chronologically like the pastorals are the last three

[00:26:00] You know, there's nothing about tongues later in the new testament

[00:26:05] Um

[00:26:07] I think that's a correct argument. I just wouldn't want to put as much weight on that part of the argument

[00:26:13] Um, but I love my pentecostal friends. Sure. Yeah, and I remember I think it might have been Daniel Wallace

[00:26:20] over at DTS. Yeah, he had an interesting thought about

[00:26:24] whether

[00:26:25] It was sort of a mediating position between classic charismatics and cessation is where

[00:26:31] It could be that in

[00:26:33] Missionary context when other people groups are joining in that could manifest

[00:26:37] Yeah, that's that's an argument but the reverse argument to that is

[00:26:42] Access is it's something about the redemptive historical change over so once you get out of that

[00:26:48] um

[00:26:49] And it would be a it wouldn't be

[00:26:52] Even if you did grant that that happens when new people groups. Maybe they don't have a bible

[00:26:55] Yeah, yeah, uh, it would manifest as their language. It wouldn't manifest as right that that's another

[00:27:00] Yeah, yeah, and another angle could be to distinguish between

[00:27:07] A cessation this view of gifts like say the gift of healing you just walk

[00:27:11] Arms hurt you walk up to the guy you touch him. Yeah, and he grows an extra part of his arm or something his arm was cut off

[00:27:19] The the gift of that

[00:27:21] Versus

[00:27:22] Could god do that in a special situation?

[00:27:26] Right, uh, you know that may be another

[00:27:30] Part of the cessationist argument you could have a view that the gifts

[00:27:34] As gifts are not given to people but certain miraculous events

[00:27:41] Which might match a gift

[00:27:44] Could occur in certain situations something something like that. I think many modern cessationists

[00:27:50] Are saying we're not saying that

[00:27:52] Miracles cease right where that god's power ceases where they cease to answer prayer

[00:27:57] It's simply a continual bestowal of a gift in the frequency and power as it was manifested in acts

[00:28:03] Right and another if I could call it a debating trick

[00:28:06] Uh, so i'm making fun of my own view here, uh a debating trick could be

[00:28:13] Every time a charismatic as an argument against

[00:28:18] Well, how can you say that stopped like you like I could see how you mostly can say it but you can't 100% say it

[00:28:24] Whatever he says I then just turned it around and go well

[00:28:29] Has the gift of being an apostle ceased?

[00:28:33] As the gift of raising people from the dead ceased and then he'll start using the same arguments that I used

[00:28:39] Again, it's a debating trick

[00:28:42] but

[00:28:46] Thankfully the vast majority of charismatic are not arguing that there are still

[00:28:51] apostles like

[00:28:52] Matthew mark or Matthew

[00:28:55] You know the 12 apostles still around

[00:28:57] They're not arguing that you shouldn't bury people because somebody may have the gift of raising others from the dead

[00:29:03] and who knows

[00:29:05] when it could you know, so

[00:29:07] um

[00:29:10] Moving on go ahead Brian. Well, you know something there's some other topics about acts that are interesting because

[00:29:16] in the cessationist

[00:29:18] Continuationist or charismatic debate

[00:29:20] There's very little on exorcism

[00:29:23] Well, but exorcism it actually features quite a lot in both luke and axe

[00:29:28] How do we make sense of that because that's not included in like the necessarily the revelatory guess unless maybe maybe they are

[00:29:34] I don't know, but I'm just curious about that. Well, again, that could be part of the debating trick back to

[00:29:43] our

[00:29:44] Our charismatic friends, but again

[00:29:47] Our sense of things is

[00:29:49] That the demonic activity

[00:29:52] Significantly increased

[00:29:56] As the redemptive historical main events were occurring now

[00:30:00] I mean my view is

[00:30:02] demonic activity still

[00:30:06] Exists and praying against it is a good thing, but I don't think anyone has the gift

[00:30:12] Of exorcism

[00:30:14] So I would you know, you could pray another angle is

[00:30:18] In this world you will never know a hundred percent

[00:30:22] Of if something

[00:30:24] Is explicitly demonic

[00:30:27] Um, so I believe it exists

[00:30:31] But I'm not going to have exegetical

[00:30:34] certainty

[00:30:35] When I see it, but if I think it exists that's one part of your prayer is if you know if this is

[00:30:42] a special activity of of

[00:30:44] Uh

[00:30:45] The devil and his minions may uh the lord through the power of the holy spirit

[00:30:52] You know stop them

[00:30:54] That's a helpful way to put it. I mean, I guess the the parallel would be

[00:30:57] I believe that god can miraculously heal people in response to prayer. That's different than saying there is a continual gift of

[00:31:05] Healing in the same way. I believe that god can cast out a demonic entity or something like that. That's different than saying that you are

[00:31:13] Gift an exorcist. There's I don't

[00:31:15] Right, right exactly that's that's uh

[00:31:18] Yes, that would be my view

[00:31:20] Well, the the spiritual stuff in ax is fascinating. I mean it does remind you and I think it's a helpful corrective to realize

[00:31:26] There is a spiritual reality 12th. It's not just like church planting techniques in evangelism techniques

[00:31:31] I mean, there's like a lot of weird stuff going on

[00:31:34] Yeah, um, how do we find our bearings with that when we see all these

[00:31:38] You know like peter getting

[00:31:40] You know out of jail and then like all these visions and yeah now some of them can be do the foundation of the church

[00:31:46] But as we've pointed out

[00:31:49] miraculous things do occur in our world and um

[00:31:55] part of it is

[00:31:57] An emphasis on the means of grace

[00:32:00] okay

[00:32:02] The means of grace means

[00:32:04] What me what instruments?

[00:32:07] does god

[00:32:09] Want you to use in normal situations?

[00:32:13] Uh, the means of grace because ultimately like how's one converted inwardly?

[00:32:18] It's the holy spirit, but what were the outward means?

[00:32:22] Westminster standards say the outward and ordinary means so if you read through ax

[00:32:29] Yeah, a lot of unusual stuff is happening and that's worthwhile

[00:32:32] That's good knowing about but one of the questions to ask is and what was the church supposed to do?

[00:32:38] preach the gospel pray

[00:32:41] And take care of widows

[00:32:44] You know so

[00:32:48] What am I supposed to do? It's pretty clear in the book

[00:32:51] Even if we don't know all the unusual angles going on

[00:32:57] You know as one of the herds

[00:33:00] Thinks he's so great and then he just dies in chapter 12

[00:33:06] I mean

[00:33:08] We're not as a general rule expecting that to happen, but it could happen

[00:33:12] But it's not our means of grace to get to kill the guy. It's our means of grace to

[00:33:17] um

[00:33:18] preach the gospel and pray

[00:33:22] And you know the church is and every single person is a preacher, but the church is to aid

[00:33:28] uh

[00:33:31] The church to preach in their own place and to send out other preachers

[00:33:36] That is a huge emphasis though. I mean you look through and I think at first glance you're like, oh, wow

[00:33:40] There's a lot of preaching in ax, but then you realize there's a ton of prayer

[00:33:44] corporate prayer fervent prayer. I mean it's like

[00:33:47] And you know, it's it's kind of inspiring. Yeah. Yes

[00:33:54] Yes inspiring well said

[00:33:58] And even the preaching

[00:34:02] There's an expression in ax

[00:34:05] The word of god

[00:34:07] Which some scholars some very famous scholars say is the main point of ax you asked before about what was the main point

[00:34:14] Okay, I think they're overdoing it. But if you

[00:34:18] Go through ax

[00:34:20] Says word of god sometimes it just says the word word

[00:34:25] In addition to the examples of preaching

[00:34:28] I mean, it's like I don't know what I had the number in my head

[00:34:32] Whatever 35 times it's that's an approximate, you know, it's it brings up the word was preached the word was taught the word was this

[00:34:42] um

[00:34:44] We got to have deacons so that the apostles can preach the word

[00:34:49] Many times he summarizes sections of the book

[00:34:53] And the word grew

[00:34:55] He even he he metaphorically connects

[00:35:00] people being converted

[00:35:02] to the word growing

[00:35:06] Meaning

[00:35:08] What he at a literal level what he means is the preaching of the word

[00:35:13] Changed people and that was growth in those people, but he just shorthands it the word grew

[00:35:21] um

[00:35:21] So in addition to all the preach the actual examples of people preaching just that the

[00:35:26] The summary statements about sections of the book connected

[00:35:31] To preaching or the word so it is quite a

[00:35:37] And again another one of these main means of grace

[00:35:41] aspects

[00:35:43] That the the word of god changes people

[00:35:46] Through the power of the holy spirit

[00:35:50] And another part is the holy spirit in the book that a whole bunch of these verses

[00:35:54] It says the holy spirits with the guy doing the wording the preacher and then a whole bunch of other verses

[00:36:01] The person hearing it needed the holy spirit

[00:36:05] So the holy spirit is involved in the speaker the holy spirits involved

[00:36:10] In the hearer

[00:36:12] So there's another you could say the main

[00:36:14] Point of acts is the holy spirit

[00:36:16] Where you could say the main point of acts is christ sending the holy spirit

[00:36:19] I mean, you know, so a lot of main points of acts

[00:36:22] Yeah, well, it's it's got so much and so many pinnacle events

[00:36:26] One of the pinnacle events is is the jerusalem council. Yeah, and that has been sort of if if pentacost is to sort of the

[00:36:34] Spiritual gifts debate if that's like the pillar of that this is like the polity debate

[00:36:40] And you know, I've talked with roman catholic friends about the jerusalem council that shows an ecumenical council

[00:36:45] It shows the apostles presiding over at magisterium freseterians. This is the first

[00:36:49] Gathering of local assemblies

[00:36:52] Meeting, yeah, you know baptist. It's the first potluck. You know what I mean?

[00:36:56] You know, that's that's what it is

[00:36:57] how do we

[00:36:59] How do we get a handle on

[00:37:01] On the jerusalem council? How should we understand that as protestants? Maybe interact with

[00:37:06] Like that's often used as a as it's funny

[00:37:10] The episcopal model uses that as like the format. Yeah, the presbyterian model uses that

[00:37:15] And you could have like because james makes a decision you could say that's the episcopal model

[00:37:20] Okay, first if we're if we're narrative critics

[00:37:23] Because we don't care about questions like that. We got to look at the plot flow of the book

[00:37:28] and then intriguingly

[00:37:30] Up until chapter 15, which is the jerusalem council

[00:37:34] Every time okay, the church starts in jerusalem and then they send out missionaries to samaria

[00:37:40] And they do things there and then they come back and report

[00:37:45] Peter goes to

[00:37:47] western

[00:37:48] Palestine does things report. So there's a sense

[00:37:53] Chapter 13 and 14 is well the anti-yacht church sending out

[00:37:58] Paul and barnabas, and then they come back and report and then they report that back to jerusalem

[00:38:04] So there's a sense up until chapter 15

[00:38:07] Uh

[00:38:09] Jerusalem's the center of geographically of activity and they send out report back send out report back

[00:38:15] Uh, and then they have a disagreement. It's solved in chapter 15 and then after 15

[00:38:21] From that point on

[00:38:23] Jerusalem's not really in the story anymore as far as the church. It's now the anti-yacht church

[00:38:29] And we get the second and third missionary journeys of paul

[00:38:33] um through

[00:38:35] Chapter 21, uh, and then paul gets in prison

[00:38:39] In sessoria, then he gets in prison in roman and the book ends. So there's a sense

[00:38:44] Before chapter 15 all roads had to lead back to druselum

[00:38:49] after 15

[00:38:51] All roads they just have it happens to just discuss primarily the anti-yacht in church and then paul

[00:38:59] going to

[00:39:01] The western part of turkey and then uh, greece or the agian's

[00:39:05] G and c area. Okay that didn't answer your question. That was the narrative

[00:39:10] Uh aspect. Okay, so in

[00:39:14] In um

[00:39:16] Jerusalem there's a discussion that

[00:39:19] some

[00:39:21] People of jewish descent and are are very interested in putting aspects of the old testament

[00:39:27] onto the new believers

[00:39:30] And in fact, it looks like they're putting it on them as a works righteousness not as clear as day, but it looks like they're goofing up justification

[00:39:37] Uh, it's not just

[00:39:41] Do we have to do aspects of the ceremonial law? It's we got to do them for righteousness sake or merit. Okay

[00:39:49] Uh, so uh, paul and barnabas are against this. They all meet

[00:39:53] Uh, they have several people speak they quote several verses

[00:39:58] Of the old testament

[00:40:00] Various verses they tell stories and one is they retell

[00:40:04] the story

[00:40:06] about the tongues

[00:40:08] Although he doesn't use the word tongues

[00:40:10] With the cornelius. He's a gentile and he says again see god wants the gentiles part of the team

[00:40:17] And then uh, they all discuss it

[00:40:21] James makes some important points. He looks to be the moderator as a presbyterian would say it

[00:40:27] The obisical would say

[00:40:29] He is the arch priest or whatever their word would be

[00:40:34] And uh, does the baptist call him the good old boy? I don't know what

[00:40:41] Committee committee head the committee head. Yeah, right. Yeah, good nuance

[00:40:48] But they certainly are involved as a group

[00:40:50] They make a decision

[00:40:52] They write a letter and actually they tell paul to take this letter to a few of the groups where he's gonna go and he

[00:40:58] Takes the letter

[00:41:00] when he goes

[00:41:03] So

[00:41:07] You know, it's other parts of the bible to solve this

[00:41:11] It certainly shows

[00:41:13] Connectionalism

[00:41:15] And so I think all christian groups can agree to that

[00:41:20] It's like one difference between a more baptist polity and a presbyterian polity is

[00:41:27] The baptist would say it's good to interact with other

[00:41:30] churches and other believers, but they don't have

[00:41:35] Legislative power over my local church

[00:41:38] Where the presbyterian would say it's good to meet with other

[00:41:41] Believers and other churches and the higher court does have

[00:41:46] Some power. So I think the baptist would say about

[00:41:49] Uh

[00:41:52] Acts 15

[00:41:54] That the local churches agreed to what the group said, but it wasn't legislated down something to that effect

[00:42:02] And the presbyterians would say it was legislated

[00:42:05] Down anyway

[00:42:10] Of course, I think it's

[00:42:14] Matches well to presbyterianism

[00:42:16] But my whole argument for presbyterian isn't there you got to go to some of the passages in the pastorals and

[00:42:22] elders

[00:42:24] There is the chapter 13 and 14 where

[00:42:27] Paul and Barnabas are going to various churches

[00:42:31] And they're choosing elders there that looks like some kind of

[00:42:36] Authority above the local church so the presbyterian would argue

[00:42:41] But

[00:42:43] I'll leave it at that

[00:42:45] Well, it's do you think that there's still something I mean you mentioned how tongues is

[00:42:51] Unique to that period that foundational period. Is there something similar that this council is unique to that period?

[00:42:56] Or should that be a model of like a lot of people view

[00:43:00] the councils of history as

[00:43:02] as

[00:43:04] A derivative of of that right and um, of course

[00:43:10] I would say they're they're fallible

[00:43:15] derivatives where the jewishland council was infallible because god was controlling it would be my

[00:43:23] distinction

[00:43:25] Yeah, I mean there are aspects of you know a lot of people historically in the anglican church

[00:43:32] their view many of their famous theologians

[00:43:36] wasn't that

[00:43:38] Anglicanism was required by the bible their view was the bible had no system

[00:43:44] You pick whatever you want

[00:43:47] So they did not see the jewishland council in any way to use a fancy term

[00:43:52] normative right for the church

[00:43:56] so that's another view

[00:43:59] on this but

[00:44:02] In the reform world, we're gonna

[00:44:05] Default to that. We do think there are significant implications from the jewishland council

[00:44:12] Some of my reform baptist friends like yourself

[00:44:15] And reform presbyterians like me. We may disagree on a few of the

[00:44:20] Angles to it, but we're gonna have a

[00:44:22] internal sense

[00:44:25] That it's at some level normative if we can't figure out every detail

[00:44:30] Well, I think I'm like, oh, this is clearly the precursor to the christian conference

[00:44:36] The megachurch council, that's how we take it in the non-denominational world

[00:44:43] Of course you say you're non-denominational

[00:44:46] But you still think it's a good idea to interact with other churches, of course, right? Right. Yeah, that's right. That's right another

[00:44:54] major theme and this one is probably I mean, I'm even just thinking about current events

[00:44:59] Um, the relationship of israel and the church that one's always been a fascinating one to me

[00:45:04] in acts, so how does axe help?

[00:45:09] us understand the relation between

[00:45:12] Israel ethnic israel and and and the church

[00:45:16] Well, of course, that's a big question. Uh, in 30 seconds or less. Yes, uh

[00:45:23] um

[00:45:24] Yeah, yeah the day jesus died

[00:45:28] The temple veil came down

[00:45:34] But the temple didn't blow up that day, right? Um

[00:45:38] That was 40 years later at 70 ad

[00:45:43] So

[00:45:44] in the history of how god's providence

[00:45:48] I mean the temple is standing right in the beginning of the book of axe and um,

[00:45:54] they are congregating at the temple

[00:45:57] um, but

[00:45:58] The leaders of the temple that the various chief priests

[00:46:03] Uh, the san san hendron

[00:46:05] Uh, they are primarily against

[00:46:08] The church

[00:46:09] Uh, and so we see that

[00:46:12] Okay, that aspect that there's aspects

[00:46:17] of

[00:46:19] Israelite religious culture

[00:46:22] We're bad, but there are other aspects that were good. Of course the apostles

[00:46:26] Are all jewish

[00:46:29] Jesus is jewish. He's the messiah. It's just he's the more correct

[00:46:33] uh messiah

[00:46:36] And the original people joining the church are all

[00:46:42] ethnic israel ethnic israelites

[00:46:46] In chapter two

[00:46:51] And the qu1, you know one of the questions of axe is is the church more than ethnic israelites and hence the Gentiles

[00:46:57] The samaritans the Gentiles so forth and so on

[00:47:02] the

[00:47:05] I would say both luke and axe

[00:47:08] strongly emphasize

[00:47:10] That the church

[00:47:11] Is the continuation of old testament israel to me that is very strong, especially with all the it was fulfilled

[00:47:20] statements

[00:47:22] Jesus is the messiah so forth and so on

[00:47:25] And this new church is reading the book of axe is going to be include people that are

[00:47:31] ethnically israelite half israelite and

[00:47:34] every other type of ethnicity

[00:47:37] And that's a very kind of a positive

[00:47:41] Thing, I mean

[00:47:45] Are you asking backhandedly about dispensationalism? Is that brian what you're asking or not really?

[00:47:50] I mean, I I mean that's certainly something

[00:47:53] I guess that's always in the background when you talk about israel in the church, but i'm just wondering

[00:47:57] Yeah, does axe if you leave axe. Do you think the church is

[00:48:02] New israel fulfill whatever kind of way you want to put it

[00:48:06] To me that's the only thing you can conclude

[00:48:12] Because uh the leaders of the temple are

[00:48:16] our

[00:48:18] In the book of axe pretty evil now. Hopefully some of them repented and in fact

[00:48:23] axe six seven does say that some of the priests

[00:48:26] Convert

[00:48:28] Showing you that there aren't two tracks

[00:48:33] Like some like some of our more extreme dispensationalists might say

[00:48:38] So to me it is very strong

[00:48:41] That the church is the appropriate continuation

[00:48:46] of

[00:48:48] Of old testament the old testament the new testament church is the continuation of the old testament church

[00:48:54] Which was primarily in israel

[00:48:56] It's just an interesting time period because yeah, there's

[00:49:00] Presumably sacrifices still being offered and it's this interesting overlap period. Yeah, and um

[00:49:08] But as the book moves on, you know, they're pretty quickly away from that after the first couple chapters

[00:49:15] Uh and uh and as I said before after chapter 15

[00:49:19] I mean Jerusalem just to the nations be in the book. Yeah. Yeah

[00:49:23] um

[00:49:25] And remember, uh

[00:49:27] Of course axe is connected to the book of luke and

[00:49:32] You know jesus has ascended

[00:49:34] He's he is the sacrifice. Uh, he has ascended. He is the temple

[00:49:39] Uh and all those kind of angles

[00:49:42] What do you think in terms of uh

[00:49:45] You know, you mentioned in some of your commentary writing you write reflections and you know

[00:49:49] How do you actually take this and how does it inform the modern church because axe was written

[00:49:54] Not just for that generation but for ours and for all future generations

[00:49:58] When you look at the church today when you think about the church when you think about

[00:50:02] What that means to be a local church

[00:50:06] What can we learn from axe?

[00:50:07] What do you think are some of the ways that this should actually impact

[00:50:11] The way the churches are led and and the way that members live within their church and I like how you said

[00:50:17] Axe is written for today because you and I think god wrote axe

[00:50:21] So therefore he wrote it

[00:50:24] He was the primary writer

[00:50:26] It had meaning to the original readers

[00:50:29] but it has meaning for

[00:50:31] Every possible audience that reads it

[00:50:34] Because god is the author

[00:50:37] and

[00:50:38] well

[00:50:40] Again part of the center of axe is

[00:50:44] But one the church is the continuation

[00:50:46] Of the old testament

[00:50:48] to

[00:50:49] The holy spirit is aiding the church

[00:50:53] um

[00:50:56] We didn't bring this up that much but there are a bunch of suffering passages where the church is suffering

[00:51:02] uh and

[00:51:04] Difficult things happen to the church and then the point is yes difficult things will happen

[00:51:10] but

[00:51:11] Through the power of the holy spirit

[00:51:14] The church will still

[00:51:16] exist

[00:51:17] And move out through the world even though an individual christian

[00:51:22] You know he may die, uh, but uh, and he'll go to heaven

[00:51:26] okay, so

[00:51:27] One expect that there may be suffering

[00:51:31] For the modern church

[00:51:33] And that point is made in many many points in places in the new testament

[00:51:38] Another one is back to the means of grace

[00:51:41] two very important means of grace should be preaching or

[00:51:46] and then even axe

[00:51:49] 17 the bereans

[00:51:50] Reading personal reading of the bible

[00:51:53] In addition to preaching i don't want to make it all about preaching. There was also reading of the bible

[00:51:58] uh, so bible oriented

[00:52:01] now if you're in the

[00:52:02] The world you and i are in that they already know that but it's good to be reminded and then also, uh, the power of prayer

[00:52:10] Is a good point

[00:52:13] I might think of if you're thinking of church planting or something to that

[00:52:20] I know it's hard but try and keep at the center

[00:52:23] Like if you're talking to the session

[00:52:26] session

[00:52:28] What should you do?

[00:52:29] Uh, well there's a lot of things you could do here, but keep at the center

[00:52:33] Uh

[00:52:35] The trinity two natures of christ christ death and resurrection and explaining that through

[00:52:42] Preaching in the bible

[00:52:45] And then using the holy spirit to aid those who were speaking and to aid

[00:52:50] The listeners now that's not all there is the church planting

[00:52:53] But that needs to be your focus your center a lot of times I draw a circle on the

[00:52:59] Uh on the board and I have you know the center of the circle is more important than the periphery

[00:53:04] And then I'll have you know preaching prayer in the center

[00:53:07] And then you know moving out

[00:53:10] all other you got things like

[00:53:12] Sanctificate personal sanctification

[00:53:15] In the whole bible personal sanctification is very very very very important

[00:53:19] Interestingly in the book of acts it harley talks about it

[00:53:23] Uh because every book of the bible can't talk about everything

[00:53:26] Um

[00:53:28] But you know at the periphery can be you know, we got to have a good

[00:53:35] Two-year you know infant to two-year-old room in our church plan because if you don't

[00:53:42] Moms won't come back a second time if they don't

[00:53:46] Trust or whatever uh the uh infant room

[00:53:50] You know and you got to care about that too

[00:53:52] Uh

[00:53:53] But if I was given a speech to the session keep the central thing central

[00:53:58] All the circle is important, but the central things are more important

[00:54:04] Is there anything in your study of acts currently because you're you know, you're working on it now and you're revising it and

[00:54:10] Um, is there anything that's puzzling to you right now? Are there any mysteries in acts that you're trying to

[00:54:14] solve right now?

[00:54:17] Uh

[00:54:20] That's funny you bring that one up

[00:54:23] I

[00:54:24] I just spoke at a conference at westminster theological seminary and

[00:54:33] Acts and so uh

[00:54:35] I had a paper slash

[00:54:38] 45 minute hour presentation on acts two three acts chapter two verse three

[00:54:44] Let me get an english. Let's see so

[00:54:47] Uh

[00:54:51] Okay, this is the pentecost event and the divided tongues as a fire appeared to them and rested on

[00:54:59] One of them

[00:55:00] Okay, the tongues of thought tongues of fire

[00:55:05] Why fire?

[00:55:06] Well previously in chapter one

[00:55:09] Jesus said the holy spirit will fall upon you but previously in john in uh

[00:55:16] Luke three john the baptist said about Jesus that he will send the holy spirit and fire

[00:55:23] And the fire in that passage

[00:55:26] is judgment

[00:55:28] so

[00:55:31] How are the tongues of fire?

[00:55:35] Which are both the holy spirit positively, but the fire is supposed to be negatively

[00:55:40] See how does that fit?

[00:55:43] uh

[00:55:43] And I gave a

[00:55:46] preliminary answer. I got a little more. There's another couple passages to look at but

[00:55:52] My particular view is

[00:55:55] that

[00:55:58] The fire means judgment

[00:56:01] But you're not getting it

[00:56:05] You have been

[00:56:07] Justified so the tongue is sort of above you so to speak

[00:56:11] Uh, and you are not going to be judged

[00:56:14] Uh

[00:56:16] By that fire, but you're reminded there is a future judgment, but hallelujah

[00:56:22] It's not going to come on you

[00:56:24] um

[00:56:25] Okay, that's probably too technical for your audience, but uh, no, uh, you asked what I was thinking of I gave you the answer

[00:56:32] Uh, it's fascinating. Yeah, we'll see maybe in seven years if you still stick with the

[00:56:37] Come on with something else. Yeah

[00:56:39] Yeah

[00:56:41] Well, since we can't get your commentary yet

[00:56:44] If somebody is interested in diving deeper into the book of axe

[00:56:47] What are some words of advice you want to give?

[00:56:50] For them any resources or even just a way of approaching the book that would be accessible? Well, um

[00:56:58] Yeah, there's lots of good

[00:57:00] Commentaries on ax and of course it depends on how technical

[00:57:04] Uh their level

[00:57:06] is

[00:57:09] You know, I mean one of my standard answers is

[00:57:13] go to

[00:57:15] Maybe a p&r website or go to christian focus website and they'll have different commentaries for different levels

[00:57:24] uh of uh

[00:57:27] How how technical you want the commentary to be that's usually my

[00:57:31] My first answer there

[00:57:33] Um, you know or get a good study bible

[00:57:36] ESV study bible

[00:57:38] Reformation study bible that'll give you a pretty good

[00:57:42] overview

[00:57:43] Uh of axe and you can get the rts

[00:57:47] Uh book, let's see. I have it right here. Look at that a biblical theological introduction

[00:57:53] to the new testament

[00:57:56] And dr. Kruger is the editor and you'll see that I wrote the luke and axe section of that

[00:58:01] There you go

[00:58:02] There you go

[00:58:03] So a biblical theological introduction to the new testament which is good for the whole new testament

[00:58:08] Um, and it's kind of written for incoming seminary students to give you a sense of

[00:58:15] The level of the writing

[00:58:17] You know, it must be convenient that you can write you can always have a record of what you actually think about something

[00:58:23] Yeah, if you actually get it published in the book. So yeah until you change your mind

[00:58:28] Yeah, right, right. Yeah, I have another edition come out

[00:58:32] But uh, you know, I I did I mean, I think your lectures are still on the rts mobile app

[00:58:36] Yeah, yeah, I didn't want to say that you can listen. I'll say it

[00:58:40] I'll say it for you

[00:58:41] You any listen to if you really liked dr.

[00:58:44] Kera's work and you want more of it

[00:58:46] Download the rts from mobile app all the lectures are there for free. Yeah, and I think it'll benefit you

[00:58:51] Yeah, and I have a lot of lectures on axe on that thing. Yeah 10 of them or something

[00:58:55] Yeah, but uh, listen to a double speed actually you do talk fast. So maybe maybe

[00:59:01] Maybe just do normal speed or something like that. But I think it'll be well worth your time to listen to them

[00:59:08] Thank you so much for joining us. This was really great. I mean, I feel like there's so many more

[00:59:12] I mean gosh, there's so much more in terms of mission evangelism. You know, polydathons

[00:59:18] I mean, there's so much more you can talk about axe, but uh, but but you know

[00:59:21] We can't cover it all and we got to wait for your commentary to come out. We don't want to spoil everything

[00:59:26] But uh, thank you so much for joining us on the show

[00:59:29] And we're gonna have links to some of your books your Hebrews commentary

[00:59:32] And so people can check out your work there and appreciate your scholarship

[00:59:36] And that's been a joy having you on the show. Thank you, brian. Good to interact with you

[00:59:44] Lord be with you

[00:59:46] Thanks. Thanks. If you guys appreciated this episode. Thank you guys for listening. Make sure you leave a review

[00:59:51] Subscribe and you can follow us on instagram. That'll preach podcast. You can all go to our website

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[01:00:00] Catalog of interviews we've done are all there and uh, you support us on patreon all those links again are going to be the show notes

[01:00:06] Appreciate you guys live listening in and that we will catch you guys next week